On this episode of Finding Focus, Gated’s CMO Melissa Moody sat down with the Founder and Chief Evangelist at RevenueZen - Alex Boyd. The thoughtful leader spent time sharing his personal experience and take on how we as humans find focus in an increasingly distracted world. The conversation covers topics including:
You can read the full transcript of the episode below, and catch the entire episode on Spotify, Apple, or Youtube.
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So, hi everyone and welcome to Finding Focus. This is a series of short actionable conversations around how and why people are looking to find focus in this increasingly distracted world. And today I'm really excited to host a, a cool guy, a good friend, and a very, very talented marketing leader. We've got Alex Boyd, who is founder and chief evangelist at Revenue Zen. Alex, you wanna say hi.
So good to be here. Thank you.
We are excited to dive in today and I'm gonna start us off because when we first started chatting, I asked you to rate your ability to focus from a one to 10. And I don't know if you remember, but you threw out a seven and I'm wondering if that's feeling different for you today or if you'd still stand by your seven and why?
I'm probably maybe a 7.5, but I just finished Atomic Habits actually, which was also helpful. I dunno if you read that book. Yeah. But that there are always places that can improve focus and the ability to block out the unnecessary, I think is what separates the, the good and solid from the, the great and probably happy people because the more focused I am, the happier I am. And so I think that's an ever out of reach goal that I love to strive towards. So maybe a 7.5, but I'm certainly not a 10.
like that. And you actually just spun me in a different direction than I was gonna go. Let's talk about Happy for a second, cuz I like that you threw that in at the end. We talk about productive and efficient and getting more done, but I love this idea of happy being an outcome of being more focused or as you mentioned, actually reducing the, the distractions. Yeah. Let's dive into that a little bit. How have you noticed yourself being more or less happy based on, you know, where you've had exposure?
How meeting your own goals contributes to happiness
Well, the, the less time I have to do the things I wanted to do or said I would do, the more I think of myself as someone who doesn't do the things I said I would do and want to do. Right? Right. And think about the impact of that on long term. You know, combine combination of productivity and happiness. If I am somebody who says I'm gonna do these three things because they really matter this week, and I get to one of 'em because I let myself get distracted by the other ones, then I didn't do as well as I thought. And I have become the type of person who doesn't follow through and I'm exaggerating a smaller kind of subconscious process.
But that really is what happens. Is it, if we think about whether I kept my word to myself, I feel much better when I do that. And my self discipline of being focused is a part of that. Did I keep my word to myself that I would do these things? And if I don't set a goal of doing these things, then I never have the chance to even see if I can do that. So it's, I don't even get the, the chance to, but ideally I'm saying these are the important things that I gotta do that would make me happy if I did them. And they're gonna move whatever life business forward. And then there's, did I do it and did I have the self care and discipline to block out the stuff I shouldn't be focused on to get to those things first.
I did not want to lift weights last night at 8:15 PM And so I said, well that was a really unpleasant experience, playing loud music to get myself in the mood to lift last night in the garage at eight 15. So I'm gonna prioritize that at a different time of day going forward. Or I should have got this big documentation done for our go to market strategy. But instead I process email now I feel bad about myself. How am I do to change it? So my, my mental state allows me to choose the thing I gotta do versus the thing that I ended up doing.
That's really interesting. We often on this show end up talking about how people pick their priorities. But I love how we're thinking now about once you've picked those priorities, if there's a gap to achieving them. I mean, that's a hit to self-worth, right? And that is, that's the happiness, right? If you see yourself as having set goals and you miss them or you don't achieve them, or you watch yourself in the process of avoiding them, that's way more heavy than just not achieving the goals, Right? It's not, or or setting the wrong goals. Wow. That, that's a kind of a heavy note to start out on, but I think it's, it's spot on and it does tie into what you mentioned about atomic habits.
That that one concept I have that he or that he has that I love, which is you view yourself as the person who.dot dot. As opposed to saying, Well, I did or I did not do those priorities. You're like, I was a person who had priorities. Yeah. I am a person who has these priorities. I see myself achieving them. Whew. That atomic habits has come up quite a few times. I've enjoyed reading it myself as well. Any other big takeaways from that? As long as we're on my book.
The idea of making the good habits more attractive, easy, interesting, and the bad ones less pleasurable. And, and then choosing the things you do right before and after. So instead of saying, you know, right after a long call, I'm gonna scroll on social media.
I might say right after a long call I'm gonna go for a 10 minute walk and just connect the little habits in a way that's stack up. And the power of habit stacking is enormous. Like once the little good habits become automatic, you can then free up the mental space to do other stuff. It's very similar to stacking marketing channels. I stack one. All right, that's working less mental energy. I can add another, Okay, let's get it going. Add another. It's the same thing with a good habit. Yeah. The point where it gets more automatic and still making sure that you reflect on it. Because the other takeaway from that is he mentions at the end of the book, a lot of people after achieving mastery decline in performance because they no longer are focused on it cuz it's such a habit, which is a downside of it.
So remaining reflective about our own performance and what we're doing, stack good habits and start small, even a little change in habit is better than than none. And you can build on top of it versus saying, here's your whole big new plan that tomorrow I gotta do everything differently. It's just never gonna work.
And I love the point about when we hit mastery, we we kind of lose that momentum cause we haven't maybe taking that idea of the small incremental or the atomic little changes and adding those onto the mastery to keep us engaged. I hadn't thought of that yet, but that's kind of that idea of like, you can still keep stacking to keep even when you hit that quote unquote mastery to keep it improving along the way.
One thing I ask before we sit down here today is usually give me a couple of your kind of smaller habits or tips and tricks. There was one in particular that I hadn't heard before that I would love for you to dive into and it was related to using brain.fm. Oh yeah. I've heard you talk about this before, but we can talk about other, you know, other things that you've found have become good habits or supporting, you know, your overall goals. Tell me a little bit about that though. Cuz I'm super curious. I have not used sound to help with the habits of focus yet.
Using sound to strengthen your focus
It's, it's wonderful. So I pay, I think it's like six bucks a month or something and it's just a app or browser window. And at the simplest I can play sounds, there's these really beautiful little, you know, UX elements where it's, do I wanna focus, relax or sleep or something. And then within that I can kind of tune to the amount of, they call it, you know, neural effect. And then if I, if they choose, you know, cinematic or water or something and I'm like, I don't like that, I want, you know, only the the Sound bath ish that's chimes or bowls or I don't want electronic or lofi. I can just customize that for what isn't defensive.
So once I find my like, good mix of stuff, it just plays this kind of droney track. It might sound something like a soundtrack or a, there are some of like the waves thing, but it's not just waves because all of the, they all have some sort of drone effect in the background, meaning it's just kind of a, some repeating element, some simple element that keeps going in the background. Now, I don't even know the, the scientific way that's constructive, but what I know the effect is with people who do this and and myself included, is after, you know, even 20 minutes of this, especially after like three hours of it on it feels abrupt to turn it off. Like the feeling of turning it off is like, whoa, interesting. I don't, I was in my, you know, my zone and now I'm not.
Like it's very conscious I was in my zone, now I'm not. And you realize when you turn it off how much it helped you focus because it was kind of blocking out all the other stuff with sound occupying that noisy area of your brain, leading you to just, just focus on the stuff you want to. Yeah.
I I'm far more able to focus on deep work with that on than if I just let my brain process all the little stuff around versus drowning into that and just saying, I'm gonna occupy the noise with this track and you're gonna be free to think about the thing you're trying to focus on. Yeah. It's drawing turn off brain fm, which is saying something so Yeah.
Makes it, it makes you think about just how much is, I mean, anyone who's ever sat down tried to meditate has felt this, right. Like how much is actually in our heads that we don't realize is going on, they're nonstop. And so to fill it with that kind of conscious more, whether we can call it more calm or just filling it with more open noise, it's a fascinating activity. Yeah. Do you do it just when you're diving into deep work or have you, I mean, are you like addicted to it at this point? It sounds, I mean, I'm excited to go spin it up soon.
Well, you can't have it on like, on a meeting for example, right? So if you're on four hours of zooms, like it's not gonna happen.
It's less necessary for low energy tasks, right? So high energy would be like, write down the key elements of go to market strategy for 2023. High, high intensity task. You have to like really think hard about that medium is like meeting with somebody you already know, talking with your team on Slack about something that's relevant but not, you know, not the random channel. And then low energy would be like processing emails that I, that are easy and just sort of forward this along or whatnot. Yeah.
So I usually do it when I'm high or medium. High is the most important, like low. It doesn't really matter what's going on. I can be distracted and do it anyway. I can do it in my sleep. Yep.
So I usually do it for high, I'm not addicted, but if I'm, if I'm like looking at a big block of time and I'm like, I don't wanna do that, that important thing, but I should, I'll turn on Brain fm and it's become a habit where before I do deep work, I will turn on brain fm and the sound of it gets like, okay, this is what I'm, I am focused when I'm hearing this and it gets me into that habit more easily while having that kind of effect on the brain through the sound itself, so starts to become a habit in itself, which is a nice side effect of it.
It is. I could imagine that the habit of simply turning it on or opening the window is kind of a trigger, right? Like your brain is like, oh, I am now gonna be working deeply. I'm gonna set aside. I can see that that in itself, just turning it on is the little habit. Right.
Let's talk a bit about, you and I have spoken before about kind of this, the, the way that te I think you phrased it well one time you said the way that tech barges in, right? Like the way that we have kind of this external assault on what we're trying to do and get our minds focused and clear. Tell me a little bit about your, your perspective on tech barging in, I know you know, you are a marketer yourself, but also just as a human. Where are you seeing us today in terms of, you know, exposure in this, in this noisy world?
You don’t have to allow tech to barge in and intrude in your day.
I, I am glad that at a basic level we have more control should we choose to exercise it, right? There are, there are so many more things that have been developed into the tech to allow you to reduce its effect. I mean, at, at the simplest level, like things like being able to turn off all of your notifications on your phone from every social media app, right? I turn off my LinkedIn notifications, I have to open up the app, which is not on my home screen to see it. Certainly nothing from Instagram unless I open it up. And again, all the app, all social media, everything that is a distraction.
You get moved off the home screen. If you distract me, you're off the home screen and your notifications are disabled. That's an.
I've gotta interrupt you quickly. Yeah. I talked to someone yesterday who told me that she purposefully deleted and changed all of her passwords to everything. So not only does she have to go somewhere else to open it up, but she has to then actually retrieve a password that she doesn't know in order to get in. And she's like, it's great. And I just was dying that like password barrier was the technology that she was using to keep herself off.
That's atomic habit as well. The author says, said Barriers assistant change his passwords every Monday and they give it back to him every Friday. So like he can use it on the weekends, but passwords have changed during the week and, and she's the gatekeeper of it during the week and very funny. But I haven't gone that far yet, but I definitely have deleted accounts. I've, you know, uninstalled Reddit, stuff like that. Just so not gonna use it. Yeah. And I did it with TikTok too where I, I will go on TikTok until I hit the, the one that says, you've been scrolling for a while, you should probably take a break. Like: Hi Alex, you wanna stop now?
Yes, I’m so ashamed when I get that, I'm like, oh my god, they got me and I hate it feeling like they got me and then I uninstall it from shame and then maybe six months later I'm like, you know what? Maybe it's not so bad by now I've learned just don't, just don't do it. You know? Yeah. Like put the headphones are there, you have to put them on yourself. Yes. You know, and this applies to the way you do your bookmarks, whether your phone is in the room when you're going to sleep, every little thing you can look at, you're probably not looking at it, but we've gotten to the point where you can disable notifications. It, there's no longer the world where you have to hear that you've got mail thing.
Yeah. You don't have to have that. You don't have to have a little icon somewhere you can see it. Yeah. Take note of when you are being gotten by the, the, the rat race of it all and change the environment. You're allowed to, there's very few things that you must allow yourself to be bared in on by, if someone's going to activate my ringer past 7:30 PM it's a, someone I've marked as a downtime contact, like grandma met can call me, you know, after that, that hour. But, but.
I love that. I think that might be the final identifier of the people that truly matter, right? When they make your list of this person can call me anytime. And I mean anytime. That's good that grandma can get through.
To push the point a little bit with the fact that you and I are in the marketing world, a lot of the blame of these notifications and the grabbing of attention is on marketers, right? And maybe we say it's on the product teams as well, but let's shoulder a lot of the blame as marketers. And this is a conversation I've been having a lot and a lot more now from my perspective, the business that you're in, especially with SEO heavy and, and the social selling work you've been doing, that's kind of like keeping you away from the in your face marketing. But I would love to hear your take on marketing's responsibility for hammering people with notifications and or what should we do better? I mean, what, how do, how does it get better for us?
B2B marketing has a bit more moral high-ground to stand on when it comes to marketing.
It’s, it's kind of nice being in B2B where there's a little bit more, call it high ground of, you know, if you are selling, if you're in e-commerce marketing, your job kind of has to be to barge in, otherwise how are you gonna do it? You know, I mean all the, all the platforms that are like get 90% open rates with text messaging and I'm like, do we really want that? And fortunately that's not a big, that's not a big, big channel for our clients reaching their, their their corporate customers. Yeah.
I mean there was the craze about cold FaceTiming, what was it a year ago? And I'm like, I get it. You're trying.
I would be horrified. And some people don't care, which is fine, that's gonna be every, every cold channel. But I, the first time I started to interruption based lead gen was at my last company, which I wrote about on the gated blog, which is the inbound lead flow per rep was drawing up as a result of things that I perceived were not due to what my team was doing. And so I felt, well, I have a goal to hit. I I lack control over the inputs, but I do have control over this one input and if we interrupt 20,000 people a month, we could hit our goal. And we did. And I didn't like it, but, you know, it was at the time just perceived I was doing what I could. Yep.
The moment I got control of that, I said, I don't wanna do this. And the moment I said, I'm just gonna put myself in a situation where I'm not forcing myself to interrupt people to, to do it. Yeah, you're right. Organic, anything, especially search is helpful.
Could even argue that organic in the right type of paid social can be helpful too. If your paid social is focused on education versus ad frequency, seven plus bond of funnel, same creative like yeah. You know, the same annoying video every time.
Then there's more high ground in that there's less high ground in the same interruption, it's actually going to be better for you marketing wise to do things that are less annoying. Every email platform is now trained to block the people that are spamming. It's still not great, can't do a good job of it, but your ad frequency will be punished if you or your, your, your quality scores punished if you, if you don't monitor frequency and people are annoyed by you. So we're kind of catching up, but none of those systems are, are good enough and everything we do at revenues end is, you know, non interruption based. And if it, if it is interruption based, then it's, it's going to be something that we could verbalize this saying this, we think this is helpful for them and here's a justification of why there's no just sort of very baseline like hammer over the head with the same thing.
Will you, will you meet with us? You know? Right. So we, we enjoy having high ground in there. Our win rates are higher than average two, which kind of proves it interruption based lead generally yield the worst win rates on the back end. So if you're in marketing, you're gonna realize that's the case as well.
Yeah. What is, I was thinking you and I should just throw out what is like the worst offender in our, in our minds of that interruption based lead gen? I'm trying to think of like what's the most unpleasant ones for me it is the extremely over presumptive and under targeted, I'll, I'll say any direct communication. So maybe LinkedIn direct or maybe email direct, but just so obvious that there is no trying behind it. Like that kind of a thing. Yeah. Anything that rubs you, especially the wrong way. I, I was on one show and he said, What are we gonna throw into the pool? I was like, Yes, exactly.
Aggressive, negative tactics in marketing and sales need to go.
The, I think the worst offender that I can possibly think of. It was an str and it was actually the brother of someone I went to high school with, which is weird, but, and he called me multiple times a day and then texted and my responded saying, Hey, I'm all good.
He emailed and when I said I'm not interested in, in the call, he proceeded to call me a keyboard warrior because I would not go on a call with him. And I was like, Wow. And so I, I like just gave him a licking and was like, you need to rethink how you speak to people. I sent it to his sister as well, was like, What's going on here? But I was like, you wanna be kidding me? Like, I get it. It's just a, it's just a tactic. Try to r someone up.
Have you seen that Key and Peele, telemarketer, skip?
I've seen a lot of key and peel, but I'm not thinking which one that would be. I'll link to it after the episode For anybody who's listening.
Peele is the telemarketer hangs up on key when he like did those about buying the vacation package and he gets so mad he calls back, telemarketer picks up, he's like, You just hung up on me. Well you weren't gonna buy the VA package, where are you? And it just continues until he gets so mad at being hung up on like seven times that he buys 10 vacation packages and it, it's a highly entertaining skip. I'm just like, that was that sdr And that's a lot of poorly trained reps in general. You can have great sdr, some of them are extremely helpful. Yes.
But I think that was the worst was the, the multiple call, multiple text, multiple email, the, the brand tarnishing and it didn't lead to revenue. Like I, I didn't get close to buying them. It was the opposite. It wasn't as if his simple persistence was going to get my money, it was just time thrown into a black hole.
I think of all of that, you know, like the social dilemma evidence we saw around certain, let's say larger companies in particular like spending all this work on UX to drive more rageful behaviors, Right? Because rage is engagement. Well maybe that works on button clicks or like trying to, or or making someone watch more tick, consume more TikTok videos. Right. But as soon as you bring it to the human level and you're literally trying a very misplaced tactic to create like frustration or rage. Oh boy, I feel like that's a backfire.
A Yeah, that's rough. People you really cannot borrow from social media algorithms designed to feed you ads. Yeah. Because we don't get mad at Facebook for showing, well maybe we do, we generally don't inherently get mad at Facebook for showing us stuff that makes us angry. Right. You get mad at whoever posted it or whoever was seen it. But in B2B or any type of direct sales or marketing environment, I am gonna get mad at the person who is annoying with me. And so you cannot borrow that concept and pour it over wholesale into any type of non-social media marketing. Yeah. Because of the attribution of, of blame. Yes. In this case goes squarely on the person doing the, the offense.
Now some people are in fact angry at Facebook and so forth for showing them all those things and TikTok of course, but that is not the majority. So it wasn't the majority. We wouldn't use those. But clearly it's not.
Yeah. Now I'm gonna stay for a little bit longer on kinda the marketing side of things and I love in particular your current title with the chief evangelist role. I think more and more we're seeing literally evangelism as marketing strategy, right? There are, there are more tactical ways to extend that. Tell me a little bit about how that role is kind of playing a role in terms of your marketing that is not about hammering people, not about, you know, barraging them with things. How does the evangelist role actually have a very tactical play in this marketing space? Right now?
What does it mean to be a Chief Evangelist?
It's almost like personal inbound versus corporate inbound. Corporate inbound would be the brand ranks on these search terms. The brand ran this advertisement. Evangelism is the person who happens to work at the brand appeared in these places and evangelist is just putting their name and face on, on the, the campaign. They're giving it their stamp. And so for me it's saying, it's me saying where can I add value as a person? Not simply as, as revenues end the, the most common example of that playing out is people say, Should I post on my company LinkedIn page?
Why can't I do that versus posting on the personal pages? Well, because a brand cannot be held accountable very easily. Yeah. A person can you have a face that's hard to change a social security number that's very hard to change. You have a name like short of, you know, disguising yourself and and going to witness protection. You cannot really dodge the consequences of your actions. Whereas a brand can rebrand, they can not care. There's.
Deny, deny, deny.
Right. Deny. You can't really get them whereas a person can be gotten. And so that trust factor is why all the like ai, sdr and AI chat bot stuff, it's like you can't AI reputation out of it because people don't ascribe reputation to raw bots. They only do to people that have skin in the game literally.
So without skin in the game, that's a reason why you can enhance your results if you believe in what you're doing because putting your skin in the game will enhance results if you're squeamish about that, you're giving up on some of the premium you could otherwise have in your performance. Yeah. And because I obviously believe in what we have done and what we'll continue to do, I'm more than happy putting my my name and face on it.
There's plenty of reasons why someone might not want to do that.
But to me, if, if someone says, you know, I'm a founder of a company, I do not want my face out there, my name out there, it's not about me, It's just put everything on the company page. Worse, they put their own profile picture as the company logo. Like, nope, you're hiding. Why are you hiding? I don't trust it. I'm skeptical and that's what everyone else thinks too. Yeah. So evangelist is not, as my mom says, are you becoming a preacher type of thing. Oh god, that was.
Evangelical mom, evangelical.
Yes, It's very different, but it's, it's the name and face as a person. It's, it's personal inbound, obviously done for the, the benefit of, of the whatever brand it is. Yeah. But it's personally about corporate inbound.
Now what that does though is that it means it's a lot of work. I mean I think that obviously in any role and especially in marketing roles as we both know, like there's always a lot of work. I'm gonna circle it a little bit back to how you actually focus within all the things that you have to do. Cause you're out there, you're personally, you're standing up for, you know, what you believe, you're writing content, you're providing value, you're also, you know, all hands on with the brand, with revenues in itself and, and the company. How do you, and I've got a follow up question to this, but how do you actually find your focus? And I know you, you know, with personal life as well, how do you Alex actually find your focus the best?
We talked about habits a little bit, but anything else that you'd wanna leave folks with that you found has worked for you?
Figuring out your north star is the core to everything.
Figure out the north star track back to the actions that need to be taken to get there. And then look at your calendar honestly and see what you have been doing and what you are in the habit of doing that is not that helpful meeting many times with the partner who has never actually exhibited concrete actions to partner with you, you might realize it doesn't contribute to the North Star and is not even on the same path at all. You might be more judicious about taking those meetings in the future. Whereas if, if, if you were saying, well the thing that has really contributed to revenue the most is me being on LinkedIn and, and talking with others and engaging with them, then that's the thing I should double down on to the exclusion of, well let's make a list of the things I can exclude from my calendar to make room for that more important thing.
If we have budget for some unproven interrupted interruption based ad channel, should I put that money there? Or should I invest in audio video equipment to record better content? I should choose the one that has more direct impact toward what the goal is.
Colorful calendar blocking for clarity
We, I of, we often hear one of the topics that comes up a lot is saying no to the things that aren't important. However, I think what you're bringing in is that reflective element of it, which is actually looking back on what's proven right? Like you don't just say no to things you think aren't gonna work. You're actually looking back and saying, Wow, I, I understand that I've put in some effort there and I've seen it's not working. So that's, it's such a, I mean that actually made me have a have a good little moment for myself today around, Yep. I should probably spend a little time and actually look over the last three weeks, four weeks and just say, Wow, what have I been spinning my wheels at that I should really just set, set aside and move forward. With.
Yes, The last five and a half years of my calendar, I have tracked my time with color coded invites to the 15 minute interval.
How about at this point I just, I just do it without thinking about it. I, I record time for when I'm working on stuff with no meeting. So I joke that if someone tries to frame me for murder, they'll have a very hard time because I have a very good alibi and I can show what I was doing and what I was working on in, you know, late 2017 at, at 6:00 PM Wow. So, so that's become a habit at this point. But I can literally see like, what did I spend my time on? Did I spend my wheels on some projects that weren't meaningful? How much time do I spend processing email? That's more than I thought. What.
Are your, I have to ask, what are the, when you say even color coded, what are the buckets? Is it okay, meetings are probably one, right? Like or sales related meetings or something. Tell me what are your buckets? I'm just curious for my own self.
There's two shades of green, which are sales and like general BizDev, partnery type of things.
So like this would be a light green our, our podcast recording because it is, it falls in the marketing kind of bucket better than it falls in the customer strategy or internal bucket. Cool. Internal team would be orange working on stuff with nobody. There would be light blue purple is talking to vendors, suppliers.
Yellow is just kidding. This is actually personal, but I'm putting on my work calendar cause gray is, this doesn't count, but it's just like a block. Like, don't book me for this time, so on and so forth. But every color has a corresponding thing. If it's ultra important thing, it's, it gets the red one. Red means can't miss it. But I have my system down. It's so automatic at this point that I tried to stop doing it and I couldn't, like I, I just resumed the habit. Cool. At the point I want to try to break it, but maybe I shouldn't.
I don't know. Yeah, I mean if it seems, if it's become a way that structuring your thinking as well as your actual calendar, I wouldn't break it. Sounds great. I mean pretty much every call I have about focus, someone mentions time blocking in some way. So the fact that you're an established an effective time blocker sounds, sounds good to me. Roll. It's.
To that point, I realize we are kind of coming to the end of our time together and I wanna make sure you are not, you know, blending one of those colors into the other on your calendar. So we'll wrap up today, but I wanted to let you have a chance to tell anyone where can they find you online? Where could they find the company online? Anything you wanna plug now's your chance.
I always encourage people to just reach out on LinkedIn. It's, for me it's, it's, it's my chosen hub of, I don't wanna make you go through our funnels and what not. Just connect with me directly and I, even if it's just exchanging a couple of messages, I'm Alex Boyd, the, the picture of me on there, my fiance insists does not look like me because my face was fuller back then and therefore I should change it. But it's, I just, it it looks, it's from that photo shoot I did when things were going great and we have this nice little look up.
It's very dramatic. Yeah, I think Mitch, Mitch Heberg would say, you're looking a little off into the left or whatever. Yeah.
It off into the left, what's going on off into the left. Exactly. Good reference. But that's, that's where to find me. And if we are gonna do business, that's probably gonna start with a conversation there that happens in the dms. Maybe it'll be days, months or, or years. But that's the best place to find me.
So. Cool. Well thank you for the time today. I appreciate that we were a light green block in your calendar and yeah, I'm sure you and I chat soon, but thanks for coming today.
Of course. Thanks for having me on.